Why I’m Voting YES on Prop 8
Oct 1st, 2008 by Sam
Prop 8 says: “Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid and recognized in California.” It’s a pretty simple statement, but of course, that has drummed up much controversy since much of the American culture and media project this to be a human rights issue than an issue of morality.
There are various reasons why people are against prop 8. Here are some that I could think of:
1. You shouldn’t legislate morality.
The problem with this statement is that most legislation on behavior is all about morality. Stealing is against the law because there is a moral code that endorses personal property. Murder is wrong because there is a moral code that deems taking another’s life is wrong morally. People are abhorrent of cannibalism because there is something innate within us that tell us it is morally wrong. And as Christians, we believe that this morality stems from being created in God’s image (Gen 1:26-27). We are not merely animals, but reflections of God Himself. And so it is He who has embedded us with a conscious, whether we are believers of Christ or not.
2. Marriage is a civil act.
Marriage is not merely an act of the state. Genesis 2 reminds us that God brought Eve to Adam, in every way officiating over the first wedding. This act preceded any existence of government.
3. People shouldn’t be involved in others’ affairs.
This argument is an off-shoot of number 1. If we follow the logic of this argument, then ultimately each individual can decide for himself or herself whatever he or she wishes. Why would polygamy be outlawed? What would be wrong if a human being married her dog, which I am sure there are many out there who probably wish to do so? Why was there such an outcry when Leona Hemsley left 12 million dollars to her dog? Why is incest against the law? What about euthanasia? If abortion is allowed, why is infanticide not allowed? The answer to all of these questions is that society has determined that there are reasons to be involved in the lives of others. The thinking is that to remain distant from such decisions would be tantamount to a slippery slope of utter chaos, anarchy, and the breakdown of the moral structure of society.
This again is no different than what God saw in the pre-flood days of Genesis 6: “Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.”
4. Gay marriage is not morally wrong before God.
The conclusion is that homosexuality is a sin, one like all sins that needs God’s grace of healing through repentance.
Conclusion
I am voting YES on Prop 8 because marriage between a man and a woman is defined for us as a creation ordinance in Genesis 2. In Ephesians 5:20ff., marriage is also a reflection of Christ’s relationship to the church and a beautiful analogy of the core essence of the Gospel. And as Paul writes in Ephesians 5, he assumes that marriage is a woman who submits to her husband and a man who loves his wife as Christ loved the church. Anything less, goes against the confines of God’s Word.
- The Impact of a NO on Prop 8
- Life Without a YES on Prop 8
- Why Abortion Matters: Voting YES on Prop 4
- Marriage: When One Becomes One Flesh
- Homosexual Hermeneutics (Part 6): What Does the Bible Say? Romans 1:26-27
It’ll be a hard sell now that Google Takes a Stand - sort of.
Anyone who votes for something that is undeniably unconstitutional, immoral, heartless, and incredibly self-serving is indeed a pathetic, lowly individual. Why deny your fellow human beings their most basic of civil rights? Surely you realize you can’t legislate religion- we do have a little thing called seperation of church and state in our nation. We also demand that all citizens be treated equally (see the 14th amendment)- why do you believe that heterosexual people are uniquely entitled to certain rights under the law? It’s a ridiculous, obnoxious way of thinking and you couldn’t be more wrong.
By the way, I am a heterosexual, married woman with 2 young children. I was raised Catholic. People like you are the reason why, although I believe in God, I will never step foot in a church again. You are immoral, self-righteous, and seek not to serve and love your fellow human beings, only to find some sort of sick power that you can use to make yourself feel like a big man. I truly pity you and your followers, and I will pray for you. I hope that someday you realize that God does not want us to spend our lives using religion to beat others down and destroy their lives. He wants us to love each other and live peacefully together, learning from each other and enriching one another’s lives.
Elaine, I wish you had read the context of the article and the subsequent article. There are a a few assumptions which I feel that you have not addressed: 1) Many laws legislate morality, 2) I stand not on what I feel is right but what the Bible says is right.
I know we probably have different presuppositions here so I won’t be able to convince you about why the Bible’s position is the right one. Also, the Roman Catholic Church on the position of homosexuality holds the same position that I do, so I’m sure you pity the Pope and the Vatican as well.
I would love to be able to communicate more with you on this if you’re willing. Otherwise, I understand that you probably won’t be able to see eye to eye with me on this. I hope the Lord blesses you, Elaine, so that you will come to know His joy! Thanks for responding.
But…what about a seperation of church and state?
What about Jews, Atheists, Buddhists, Hindus…there is more than one religion in the U.S.
Why base this off of any type of Christian viewpoint.
If you dislike Gay Marriage (or Homosexuals in that matter), than don’t surround yourself by them.
If someone wants to get married, why should you feel they’re effecting you in any way?
It almost seems like those who vote yes on 8 are heterosexual couples who don’t want to share the title of ‘marriage’ with a homosexual couple.
Why should religion have anything to do with this bill.
And I’m not saying that religion is wrong. I think it’s a great thing.
But why have it be a basis for any type of bill.
For example, if the Bible says Homosexuality is wrong (which many will argue), it also says that Jews killed Christ.
So why aren’t Jews being killed left and right?
Because it’s wrong! But if you dislike Jews, that’s your own personal belief. Believe it all you want.
And even if the amount of dislike for Homosexuals isn’t as over the top as that, it still shows that people not only want to take the Bible completely literally, they want to impose their beliefs on other people.
And I draw the line there.
And yes, it’s true, I have a Christian worldview. My faith and belief and sense of moral and ethical code is based on the Bible. That is a different presupposition for many. But it is one that only true hope that humans have, a hope that rests in the person of God the Son whose sacrifice is the greatest promise for joy and satisfaction any person can have.
What should religion have to anything to do with this bill, you ask? I would ask you what do you think religion is. I have a feeling we have different definitions. I would say both of us believe in a right or wrong. So in a sense, you might call what I have, a religion, but I would call what you have a religion as well.
I would also note that given the fact that the SF public school system is taking first graders to lesbian weddings as class trips, it’s not only those who are voting YES on prop 8 who want to ‘impose their beliefs,’ on others. The reality is, Jacob, if prop 8 doesn’t pass, kids all around the state, people all around the state and eventually the country, will be forced to accept homosexual marriage as a marriage. And it’s already happening. Prop 8 is to do exactly what you contend is happening, to stop the state from imposing its beliefs on others.
And personally, I believe killing and disliking Jews is wrong because the Bible says so, because Jesus says so (Matthew 5:21-26).
Of those first graders who went to see a lesbian wedding, do you believe there was any parental consent?
I think so.
I think supporters of Prop 8 are trying to twist events like that.
I just don’t understand why Gay people marrying has anything to do with YOU. YOU aren’t getting married to someone of your sex. Why is it your problem?
Children always need the consent of a parent, and whose to stop a parent to let their child be exposed to homosexuality?
Especially in the most pure, loving way.
I would understand you feeling offended if first graders saw a first grade porno, but what they saw was a ceremony of commitment between to loving humans. And BELIEVE me, if you think the parents didn’t approve of it, then by all means, think that. But I’m nearly 100% sure there was SOME parental consent in there.
Jacob, the reality is that without Prop 8, your very argument, that there will be an imposition of beliefs on one group is exactly what Prop 8 is intended to create.
What does gay marriage have to do with me? Why is it “my problem”? You have not addressed one point that I have raised about morality or ethics. If I don’t have a slave and I am not affected by slavery, but there is slavery, can’t I be against slavery simply because I ultimately believe it is a moral injustice? Can’t I also be against it because I know at some level it DOES impact society and therefore, at some level it will impact me as an individual? To state that it has nothing to do with me would be to assume that marriage is absolutely a neutral moral issue. Based on your logic, then would you have a problem if I had 10 wives? Would you have a problem if people married their dogs? Would you have a problem if a man married his daughter? Would you have a problem if a woman married her 2-year old son? The argument that such a person could make is exactly the same one you offer, “I just don’t understand why ‘FILL IN THE BLANK OF ANYTHING I JUST STATED’ has anything to do with YOU. YOU aren’t getting married to FILL IN THE BLANK. Why is it your problem?” If you can say that you don’t have a problem with these things, then I would say your consistent and then I would simply say we have a different moral compass and that makes sense to me. But if you say otherwise, then I feel it seems we can’t dialogue much on this issue.
But thanks for your input Jacob. You words allow me to understand the topic more.
Oh, we do live in a fallen and broken world just as the Bible says! If we go back to creation, God made man and woman and it was good. God design man and woman for each other. This happens in every country that man and woman marriage is the norm. No country or place is where gay marriage is the norm, not even in San Francisco!
Why do we need to fight on gay marriage even, is evidence of sin, because when we even think it should be acceptable it is rebellion on God’s design! This should be really an non issue, but even Christians disagree on this bothers me. God did not design or accepts gay marriage, it is not my opinion, but clearly in the Bible. If you think God is okay with gay marriages why not ask God, why do we have to debate, or have a Prop, is because of sin. If we only can obey God, but I understand for I am a sinner, and prone to sin myself, but I must submit myself to God despite it. Oh how this world and I need the Gospel in my daily living! Without Christ this world is truely lost!
Why oh why does the decison always go back to the bible? The bible should not dictate laws in our soceity. It is unfair to tell someone they can not marry the one they love. I agree with Elaine. Not to mention the fact you are voting on a LAW your story book has made up. I have my own relationship with God but love, friendship and family dictate my life. Hmmm maybe I should glorify Hans Christian Anderson’s nursery rhymes… Yes than I can live in a constant delusional state like anyone who votes for prop 8. Passing this law will not cause gays to start breaking into your home and marrying your husband/wife. There is not one single sane fact that passing this law, would have a negative effect. If anything it would have a positive one, maybe our country could win back some credibility that religous right wing conservatives lost……
I agree with your logic, not your presupposition. I don’t believe the Bible is the same as Hans Christian Anderson. But at least your consistent.
Thank you for sharing Kristen, I usually get no responds to my posts.
I reread Elaine and thought about your post. My post was mainly for believers.
Our country, USA, was founded on Jedo-Christian laws, so many of our laws do come from the Bible. That is fact. Other countries have different beliefs and that is why certain countries do certain things. For example, if you go to a conservative Arab country, women have to cover themselves in public. Homosexualitiy is illegal in certain countries due to their beliefs.
My point is that everyone has certain beliefs that is why we do certain things. I understand where people are coming from about gay marriages.
People want whats best for them, they like to have their own way. God is love and has a standard. We have to follow certain standards and laws, otherwise society would be chaotic.
God wants us to know Him and give Him the respect He deserves. God gives us laws and standards, so we can live in peace and enjoy this world. Do we consider God when we think and give our opinion about gay marriages. What does God think about gay marriages?
Law or no law, is this something God has design, in His plan, or desire?
If you do not know and have a relationship with God of the Bible, that is why I can see your stance on gay marriages. But I invite you to find out more abotut Him.
Thanks for reading and sharing!
thanks for the post.
yes on prop 8!
http://prop8discussion.wordpress.com/category/legislation-and-social-issues/
Great post! You have 4 great reasons why you should Vote Yes on Prop 8. I really enjoy that you disarm each major concern that people have. Great work!!
You (no on
people keep saying what does the bible have to do with it, then why do you want to get married in a church? Read the bible, just get married in city hall. If you were to get married in church (wich the bible say’s is wrong) you will be judged and disliked even more!
For starters, I dont meant to offend you, but the person who said that they don’t step into church for the people, You are just dumb. Your relationship with God is individual. Whatever the people do or say should have nothing to do with you seeking God. No church is perfect, as long as there is humans attending it, guess what, there will always be someone doing or saying something you don’t agree with. Grow up. Nobody here is bashing on homosexuals or saying they hate them or are against them. I personally have homosexual friends and love them with all my heart, however my convictions stand in this “story book” as one of you called it and that’s it. Seperation of church and state? As long as i’m concerned my Bible says that We are the church, and i live in the state. So I don’t care much for that. Where this pushes me to vote YES is the aftermath it’s caused in the states it’s been legalized. In education, why should a child be imposed to learn about something their own parents choose not to believe in. You may say “parental consent” but let’s be real. Once this is a law, parental concent will turn into forced educating. You want us to allow gay marriage, but why should us, as people of God be forced to vote against our own convictions? Many orphanges in Mass. have been stripped of their rights to allw adoptions because they refused to adopt children to same-sex couples. Pastors/Priests have been stripped of their rights to marry a couple because they refused to marry same-sex couples. So the unfairness goes both ways. We are imposed to do things we don’t believe in.
My finally say on this matter. Today is election day, Nov. 4, 2008. This vote will have an effect on California, but the vote will not change people heart on the matter. That is what is most important. God gives us laws to protect us and to give us a civilize society. Everyone lives by law and beliefs. We as people are all under some law. There are good and not so good laws. However, as a Christian, I have found God’s law as the Bible to be true and good. Our country is founded in Jedo Christian beliefs and laws and I am blessed to live in this country. As a Christian, I have freedom in Christ, and I believe in freedom, otherwise I wouldn’t be able to express my opinion freely in this blog. . As a Christian, I do not impose my beliefs on anyone and respect everyone opinion. I am no better than anyone else. However, I share my faith and beliefs out of love and is grateful that I live in a country where I can. The matter is we were created for man and woman union. God’s design is beautiful and wonderful. When we go outside of God’s creation we have problems and people suffer. It is because of sin we suffer either our sin or someone else. Gay marriage is not about discrimination, it about God’s design for marriage. God did not design humans to get married with animals. Our world even with all different cultures, languages, and such it is still marriage between man and woman.
I think men should be able to marry young boys, if the boy is over 13 and they really love each other. Why are you people so hung up on traditional morality? We are free to do whatever we want, and you can’t stop us, as long as the majority says, “it’s all good!”.