As for why God would create humans to begin with (boy that is a douzee of a question), let me tackle it this way: God creates all things good, not sinful. He creates human beings out of His joy and delight as a good and loving God. But Human beings rebel against God through sin. God providentially saves. I know this is so simple. But in many ways, there are certain paradoxes that the believer will always face. We will do everything we can to understand, but to perfectly know exactly how everything fits together is to ultimtately say that they perfectly understand God (which would be like God).

But here is also a more detailed explanation of what I said in a more theological/philosophical perspective:

As the sovereign, all-knowing God of the universe, he has an overall “blueprint,” known only to him, in which he has already orchestrated every effect from every cause and every consequence from every condition. In his perfect wisdom and almighty power, God’s conception and resolve is to bring about the precise goal which he intends for his creation. Ultimately, everything that comes to pass is what he has purposed, and everything he has purposed comes to pass (Is. 14:26-27; Eph. 1:11).

However, this does not eliminate intermediary causes. Persons are not puppets bound by a divine string. People make significantly free and, consequently, responsible choices that are part of the overall plan of God. Though human freedom is not absolute nor total in the sense that God’s design is made contingent, all people everywhere and at all times have been endowed with considerable determination impelled by the inclinations of the self. In order for love to be meaningful, it must be freely given. So, God originally created humans with the ability either to remain in a loving relationship with him, or not. Choosing to break fellowship with God, humanity became enslaved by an impulse which was only contrary to his perfect will (Gen. 6:5; Rom. 3:1ff; Eph. 2:3).

Yet, God in his wondrous mercy, grace, and love set out to remedy our hopeless human plight by offering up Jesus as the Savior of the world. He did this so that some, who through faith alone in his Son, might become born anew and forever enjoy a relationship with him as their loving, heavenly Father (1 Jn. 3:1). Given this divine plan of creation and redemption, questions naturally raised are “In what logical order did God decide, determine, or purpose that these events should take place?” “If the divine will is ultimately prior to and authoritative over the human will, what about human freedom?” Answers to these questions are somewhat speculative. But a substantial amount of biblical data will show that 1) God’s plan is certain and 2) human involvement is part of God’s strategy he employs to bring about his perfect plan for the universe.

Sorry to belabor the point; I really appreciate your time & input… it sounds like you’re affirming that any act of repentance and salvation begins and ends w/ God’s grace. The bible (and personal experience! as you say) lead me to agree.

So I think this is my conclusion; please let me know if/where I’m mistaken:

God must actively decide who will and who will not accept His grace. His desire (Dr. Piper - His “sovereign will”) is that we all love Him & experience eternal salvation. But His “will of decree” is that some of us will not accept Him. And this is just, since everyone deserved wrath to begin with.

I don’t know why or how He chooses. But I’m beginning to feel confident that this has to be it. Omnipotent & just God chooses some and doesn’t choose others. I guess the utter incongruity that *I* was one of the unmerited chosen is what leads to compositions such as “Amazing Grace”.

But then, given His omniscience, and the horrible reality of hell, why would God create the unchosen to begin with? How to comfort those who have lost loved ones who did not believe? If decreeing a fallen humanity is, as Piper says, to more fully reveal His glory…I suppose what creature can argue with that?

Perhaps our response is just utter gratitude and renewed urgency to spread the Good News?

But at the same time, every person, after Adam and Eve, are now inherently guilty for our rebellion against God. No person (Romans 3) has any desire to worship HIm as He should be worshipped inherently. Everyone looks to worship himself/herself. And so there IS something within us, ourselves as sinners, that does deserve punishment.

But imagine this, in this state, we cannot then choose God because our first and natural inclination is to not choose God. If you are on a diet and in the fridge you see an apple and a candy bar, and you decide to eat the candy over the apple, you cannot say, “I chose to eat the apple because I am on a diet.” Either you would be insane, or unable to articulate what ‘candy’ and ‘apple’ means. You always choose what you inherently most desire. So in our sinful state, we cannot and are unable to choose God. It just won’t happen. Even when we “choose” God by going to church on Sundays or reading the Bible, you’ll notice how wrought those choices are with your own sinfulness. Sometimes we go to church just to please our parents or to make our conscience feel better. We read the Bible more out of duty than out of a desire to know Him better. Even the good things we do are still influenced and sometimes spurned on by sin. In this state, we simply cannot choose God.

But rather, He chooses us and calls us to Himself. By the power of His grace, He breaks through our will and then reaches us and turns us toward Himself. So Romans 8:29-30: “For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.�

So the bottom line: We are absolutely guilty of condemnation for OUR sin and rebellion against God. Everyone deserves judgment. No one deserves grace or that would undermine the very understanding of grace. But God out of His mercy, calls His people to Himself through His Son. So those who do not heed Christ’s call, are in actuality, doing what they inherently want to do, which is to reject Him.

I don’t know if this helps Jeanette, but I think these questions are exactly why I have this blog in the first place. So don’t feel bad about asking them.

Yep, it’s Jeanette. I agree, we are all deserving of wrath and eternity without God, and it is only by God’s mysterious grace that I have confessed Jesus to be the only Way, while others have died before they did so. But I don’t think I quite understand how I can say I am saved by grace alone — that I can credit nothing in me for having confessed that Christ is Lord — yet say that those who refuse to heed Christ’s call must take responsibility for their actions. Doesn’t that suggest that there *is* something within us that can take credit (or be punished) for our belief or disbelief?

Sorry — perhaps this is not the right forum to explore these issues. I ask with the belief that God is completely just and righteous. The V. Tech massacre just made me want to be able to articulate to myself what exactly it is I believe about salvation.

I do think this is a grievous situation. But in the context of history and the world, such things sadly happen all of the time. In fact, I thought it interesting the next day in small print 150 people were blown up in marketplace in Iraq by a suicide bomber and no one even flinches here. It’s just another piece of news in Iraq. Only when it happens in our backyard do people really care. But any way, I digress.

As to your question, as Christians, we assume that we are all deserving of judgment on the basis of our rebellion against God. Jeanette, in a society like ours where there is a church on every street and a Bible in our language and Christians all around, I doubt anyone here can claim they didn’t have an opportunity to ‘get things right’ with God. If you continually told someone, “Do not jump in the ice cold water or you will die,” and they said to you, “I don’t believe you,” and did it any way, would you think they weren’t warned sufficiently? All of us are rebellious against God (Romans 1-3) and are His enemies (Romans 5:8-10). We don’t deserve grace at all. We deserve judgment. That God saves anyone at all is an act of increidble grace.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for your thoughts on this horror. I thought Salon had a good commentary on the role of race in the analysis:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/04/19/cho_shooting/

I feel really grieved & disturbed over so many college students’ lives unexpectedly cut short…I think about how wishy washy I was about faith in college, banking on having time later to figure it all out. Can it be that some of these students are now suffering eternally for putting off getting right with God? I’m not quite sure how to think about all this.